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Network Probe Templates

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Network Probe Templates

Postby mscott.gettingyouconnected » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:24 pm

I want to be able to get my devices to show up correctly under network devices such as a router shows as a router etc. Currently though very few if any devices show up as what they are they mostly just show up as the default network devices. I was wondering if anyone has a way to get a general list of OID's for manufacturers. I can't seem to find much online.

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Re: Network Probe Templates

Postby ian.integra-xp » Fri May 03, 2013 11:12 am

This is a bit of a nightmare. The info is out there but there doesn't seem to be any consistency. It also doesn't seem to be easily obtained - though almost everything is available if you search.
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Re: Network Probe Templates

Postby alex.hammond.hoodsweeney » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:04 pm

Yeah, I have had to manually update the device type on the devices my probe finds. This can be very tedious, especially if you have a bunch of voip phones being detected, along with printers, switches, servers etc. A good argument for managing separate dhcp address pool ranges for different device types. Also useful is a good naming convention on devices that indicate what type of device it is.
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Re: Network Probe Templates

Postby kenw.kmsi » Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:54 pm

Actually this is a pretty important question.

How _does_ the probe know which devices to try to push agents to? Does it just blindly try every IP and "see what sticks"?

I'd at _least_ like to know how many of those IPs the probe discovered are actually PCs, so I could do a little bit of an inventory. I may not always want to do an automatic push, and even if I did, just because an agent push failed doesn't mean it should have. Not every device on every LAN is a domain member, for example.

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Re: Network Probe Templates

Postby ian.integra-xp » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:23 am

well, i would guess that it does just blindly try every ip - there isn't any other way to find PCs.

Then, anything which responds on 132/135 is likely to be a windows PC. It then tries the passwords you have configured for that location. If any of them work, it installs using psexec

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Re: Network Probe Templates

Postby kenw.kmsi » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:30 pm

Maybe I wasn't clear, Ian. Yes, you pretty much have to try every IP to find devices that respond, but you don't have to try to install an agent on every IP to see if it's a PC. Brings to mind images of dogs and chair legs...

As you pointed out, it depends what ports they have open. I'm sure you're aware, tools like nmap do a pretty good job of figuring out that things are on a network without trying to install anything at all.

So... it sounds like you're saying that LabTech makes no attempt to figure out what things are though. It's going to make network management more difficult, that's for sure.

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Re: Network Probe Templates

Postby ian.integra-xp » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:41 pm

No, I didn't say that. I said that it scans the network, blindly trying to connect to open ports to work out what each box is. If a box responds on 132/135 then its likely a PC and it will try to install the agent. If these ports don't respond then it wouldn't make any sense to try and install anything.

LT makes use of snmp information to classify nodes. Once snmp responds it uses the device information to apply snmp templates. Outside of these two cases there isn't much else which can be picked up. I'm not sure if osx and linux are automatically detected. I would guess not.

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Re: Network Probe Templates

Postby kenw.kmsi » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:12 pm

Hmm. OK, that port 132/135 approach makes sense to me.

But I don't see anything on a network list giving any hint of what kind of response it got from each device, so there's no indication of what kind of device it thinks it might have detected. Am I missing something, is there some way to see that, or does it just throw that info away? I mean, just because those ports are open, there are still lots of ways an agent install can fail.

As well, I think SNMP probes are pretty much a waste of time for 99% of all PCs, which almost never have that turned on by default. But it could be useful to know if remote devices appeared to have the SNMP port active, even if the authentication failed. Again, though, I don't see any indication that such information is collected or can be reported.

So it sounds like you're saying that, basically, LabTech's network scans do try a bit to figure out what various devices are, but what little information they gather basically just gets thrown away, and there's nothing we can do to make things any clearer. What do you think, have I go that about right?

Oh, BTW, would I also understand correctly that the list of devices showing under the Location->Network at each site never includes systems that have LabTech agents installed, and there there is no one list or report anywhere that shows all network devices at a location, whether or not they have agents installed?

I'm just trying to get some sort of simple master inventory of all devices at a location, and it just doesn't seem that's possible at all using LabTech. I have free stuff that seems to do a better job of that, but I want LabTech's reporting.

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Re: Network Probe Templates

Postby ian.integra-xp » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:57 am

Nothing will give you a complete inventory of what exists at a client for the simple reason that not everything is always present and switched on.
You either take a snapshot and forget devices which are not present, or you scan on a regular basis and accept that dhcp enabled machines are going to screw up your results as they change ips.

LT shows three different things
- Hosts it has detected and installed an agent on
- network devices which have responded to snmp
- Network devices which have responded to ping

There isn't an integrated report which overlaps these three types of devices into a subnet map, no.

LT does have a problem at the moment of not expiring network devices and not removing network devices whose IPs correspond to active PCs. So the list of machines which have responded to ping really doesn't serve much purpose.

Servers which have snmp enabled will appear duplicated as they are both hosts and snmp devices.

I'm not sure what you mean by
LabTech's network scans do try a bit to figure out what various devices are, but what little information they gather basically just gets thrown away,

What do you want, a network capture? LT doesn't try to profile nodes using port response fingerprinting, no, but then what for? Its a management tool, not a scanner. What would it do knowing that 192.168.1.206 happens to be running apache but isn't manageable? It will get added as an unknown device type.. i.e ping response.

You *can* get LT to run your favourite network port scanner and to upload the results to your server where you can spend happy hours reading about all the devices on your clients networks.
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Re: Network Probe Templates

Postby kenw.kmsi » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:22 pm

Hi Ian,

What I meant by "what little information they gather basically just gets thrown away" is that, according to your description, the scan does look for certain open ports, which could help characterize devices by type. It _could_ record those results in the device list, whether or not it is able (or was asked to) install agents on them.

For example, there could be a "ports"column in the network device list, showing whether there was a response to the ports it tested (even if only those three), or a "looks like" column that could say "PC", Router", "printer" and so on. Something that simple would be a heck of a lot more useful than the essentially anonymous list of addresses it shows now.

It wouldn't be that valuable in well-known, well-managed AD domain sites. But it would be a major benefit for new site surveys, particularly ones that aren't well-managed yet, and that's the whole point of the scan, isn't it?

FWIW, Kaseya offers a service that uses nmap to scan networks regularly and provide reporting on what it finds. Obviously I could create some sort of LT script that runs, say, nmap or Microsoft's PortQry command line tool, for myself. But:
A) I pay for Labtech because I don't want to develop my own RMM tools.
B) I want the kind of maintained device list LabTech provides.
C) If LT supported using a scanning tool and importing the results into the network list, that would certainly be a step in the right direction. Or even the option to run PortQry against that list of IPs, say.
D) Since LT is already checking ports, why should it not just keep the results and display them?

Does this not make sense?

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Re: Network Probe Templates

Postby ian.integra-xp » Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:16 pm

Sorry, long backlog of emails to get through. I agree with you. I've put in a couple of enhancement requests on the subject of network devices as the current device management is primitive in the extreme.

Nmap integration would be very nice, I agree.
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Re: Network Probe Templates

Postby kenw.kmsi » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:54 am

Thanks Ian, I appreciate that.

Frankly, though, I'm leery about using nmap. It can be network- and resource-intensive, and does far more than we need. I've had it trigger firewall blocking against LAN devices. If it were used, we'd need to be sure that the default settings avoid that.

I'm still inclined to think that if the current network list simply displayed the ports it already finds (or some summary analysis) using current scanning methods, that would be trivially easy, low-impact and very useful. Especially compared to what it does now.

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Re: Network Probe Templates

Postby ian.integra-xp » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:59 am

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Re: Network Probe Templates

Postby kenw.kmsi » Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:37 pm

Thanks Ian, don't have 2013 yet, too much going on right now to add that to the mix. Maybe in a couple of weeks.

But your link looks like SNMP-specific stuff. We use PRTG for SNMP, and nothing I've seen yet comes anywhere close to the power and ease of use I get with PRTG. LabTech could take lessons from them. So unless it does more than SNMP...

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Re: Network Probe Templates

Postby kenw.kmsi » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:02 am

Well, we've made a _little_ bit of progress.

Now, if you double-click a device in the Network list for a location, the Network Device windows which opens has a Ports and Monitors tab. PCs will generally list port 139 (NetBIOS). It's a start.

However, I've checked: there is no way to get that Port display to list as an optional column in the Network list, or in a DataView, or in a Report, or anything else. And so far as I can see, it doesn't affect any device type designation in the list either.

So we're still left with no practical way to find PCs on a network that are missing Labtech agents. Gee, you'd think LT would want to sell more licenses...

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